When Lenelle Duecker became an assistant to an insurance broker back in the 1970s, she did so out of necessity. The newly single mother needed a steady paycheck and hours that would allow her to spend time with her young son. And while she knew nothing about the field – apart from the notion that it was “boring” – she assured herself the situation would be temporary. But it wasn’t long before Duecker realized she’d stumbled upon her perfect career, one that satisfied her intellectual curiosity and encouraged her to challenge herself. Her 30 years in the business have been marked with many “firsts,” including being the first woman in her firm to attend a convention or receive a title on her business card. Today, Duecker is senior vice president at the Woodland Hills office of USI Insurance Services, number 6 on the Business Journal’s list of Insurance Brokerage Firms (see page 12). She brokers property and casualty policies for clients such as John Paul Mitchell Systems Inc., OPI Products Inc. and other major brands. Duecker sat down with the Business Journal to discuss starting over as a single parent, breaking into the “boys’ club” of insurance brokerage and the evolution of the industry. Title: Senior Vice President, Property & Casualty COMPANY: USI Insurance Services Born: Virginia Education: College of William & Mary, bachelor’s degree in English Literature Personal: One son, two granddaughters; lives in Burbank Hobbies: Reading, gardening, cooking, enjoying wildlife menagerie outside home in Burbank hills Question: Are you from California originally? Answer: No. I grew up on the East Coast, went to school on the East Coast and got married in New York City; I had my son in Connecticut. My then-husband was from California, so we said to be equitable maybe we should move to that area. We wound up in Oregon, and got divorced. My son was around 4 years old, so I thought, well, if I move back to the East Coast he won’t see his father. My college roommate offered to let me live with her and her husband in Burbank until I got back on my feet. How did you wind up in the insurance industry? My background primarily had been in retail. It’s practically impossible to do retail hours as a single mom without a family around to help, and even if I could have found enough daycare I would never have seen my son. I needed a 9-to-5, Monday-to-Friday job. My roommate introduced me to an insurance broker who was looking for an assistant. The pay was very low but I knew I could squeak by. The agent liked me because I was referred and he had been raised by a single mom. What was your perception of the insurance industry before you joined it? I remember thinking, “Oh dear, insurance is just going to be papers and numbers – it’s going to be so boring, so dull.” Did your expectations turn out to be true? Just the opposite. What was your job title? I started as “the secretary.” I was really an assistant, but I had to learn insurance and get my license. I also needed to pick up basic skills like typing, because I’d gotten away with handwriting stuff in college. So I went back to night school in Burbank. Did you anticipate that insurance would become your career? Not at the very beginning. I just thought once I was stable enough to pay my bills, I’d figure out what to do with the rest of my life. What changed? My first boss – who became my mentor – told me I had an aptitude for the work and that I should get into the sales part, where I could really advance. He was encouraging; he told me as long as I was caught up on my desk work I could spend some time in sales. Who were your first big clients? We worked with a large group of lumber dealers – this was before the big box stores – most of which were family-owned. They had a huge association, so that’s what I really focused on. What was the industry like at the time? Often you had to literally get a wet-ink signature from the underwriter to bind coverage. You spent a lot of time going up and down the street getting all these signatures, but that’s how it was done. What was the workplace like for female insurance brokers? Early on I was told by several very smart male insurance brokers that business owners and CFOs wouldn’t be comfortable discussing finances with women. But I think in my whole career I’ve been aware of maybe one or two prospective clients who I thought might have turned down working together because I’m a woman. Clients want someone who can handle the issue. My colleagues may have grown up on this “old boys’ club” presumption, but that wasn’t what I experienced getting business. How did you handle prejudice in the workplace? If there was something I wanted, I asked for it. For example, our brokerage attended a convention every fall in Palm Springs with the lumber dealers. I knew all our clients and prospects would be there, so I asked my boss if the women in the office would be going. He said, “Oh no, women don’t go to conventions.” I said, “Oh, really? Because it would be so great to meet the clients we deal with all the time, and we could help you out.” And he didn’t think that was a bad idea. So myself and a co-worker became the first women with our firm to go to a convention. What was it like? I remember thinking about my own prejudice – I was expecting to see men running around with lampshades on their heads – but it was so much fun! Our clients got to see us and ask questions, and we ran some seminars. It really helped business, so it became a tradition. Was this a big deal for the firm? Yes. So much so that one day the head of the company was bringing some government officials around on a tour, and he stopped in front of me and said, “She was the first woman that we sent to a convention and she went last year!” I’m sure there are many stories like that in different companies. You have to have people that will fight for you and you have to be persistent. Do you have other stories? I was working for a small broker in the mid-1980s, and there was a competition where if you sold a certain amount of workers’ comp insurance policies, you qualified to go on a fishing trip called “Race to the Rogue.” One day our marketing person came to me and said, “Lenelle, the company has just figured out that you’re the only woman to qualify for the trip.” Up till then, it had always been men. So I went to the president and told him, and he said, “By God, if you’re qualified, I’m making sure you’re going on that trip.” They brought along a lady from the San Bruno office so I wouldn’t be the only woman there. I didn’t catch anything, but I had a grand old time! How did women outside of the industry perceive you as a female insurance broker? I never had any issues with women outside of the industry, but internally was a different story. I think sometimes women in support staff positions are more comfortable taking instructions from men, or men seem more important to them. I’ve had a lot of great assistants, but I’ve had some where I just knew that if I were a guy, working with them would have been a lot easier. How have gender roles changed since you started your career? To a large degree the industry is still male-dominated; there are more female executives at insurance carriers than when I started, but on the brokerage side in property and casualty it’s still predominately men being brokers and running the offices. On the employee benefits side, there are more women producers (brokers). It’s almost like there’s a perception because you’re a woman you’ll understand employee benefits more. Who has been your biggest inspiration? My late father. I loved both my parents very much, but he was especially supportive of me. I was the oldest of five and had three brothers, and I remember my mother saying to my father, “I know Lenelle wants to go to college, but maybe we should save our money for the boys.” You know what my father said? “If she wants to go to college, we’ll send her to college. We’ll worry about the boys later.” What makes your work interesting? For me, it’s meeting people, finding out what the challenges are and learning something about other businesses that I would never have known. I’m more of an introvert in my personal life, but in business it’s a different dynamic. You’re meeting new people and they’re assessing you because it’s a business situation – they’re wondering what you can do, so it becomes a challenge. Working in property insurance means I also get tours of manufacturing firms, hotels … and see how things get put together and learn about someone’s business from the inside. What is the most difficult type of insurance to sell? Right now it’s cyber insurance. Smaller businesses believe only large firms are affected by hacking; owners will say they have an e-commerce website, but they don’t need insurance because they outsource. They don’t understand that if whoever they’ve outsourced to is hacked and customers’ information is stolen, the retailer is on the hook too. But it’s not just retailers: Any kind of personal information on employees and even paper files are vulnerable. Hackers are hitting a lot of smaller businesses because they don’t have an IT department. It’s not going away – you can’t put your head in the sand. What are the big challenges you face day-to-day? Staying as current as possible on a lot of changing trends and client needs. Like cyber for instance – I know enough to be dangerous but I really rely on a specialist, whereas other kinds of coverages I know inside and out. Keeping abreast with changes and communicating them with clients in a way that doesn’t leave them with the impression that you’re just trying to sell them more can be challenging. Has technology made your job harder or easier? Easier, in that we can streamline delivery to our clients, but it’s harder because if we don’t cover all our bases, our competition could beat us to the punch. Plus, it’s so easy to work from anywhere that we’re in danger of becoming too focused – and dull! What is your response to those who believe technology will make the need for insurance brokers obsolete? People say that if they can buy their own homeowners’ or auto policy, why would they need a broker for their business (insurance)? After all, they have a smart CFO, or they can train someone to handle it. But what they find is that it’s too much to handle – it’s too complex. You have to have the conversations and the relationships to get the best protection for your business, and brokers can give you options that you won’t get online. Why is the relationship with a broker so important? You want a broker who is going to bring you solutions, who can offer the resources you need to protect your business. Insurance companies offer some, but they’re prejudiced. A client can tell me that their sprinkler system went off for three days and they didn’t know it, and I’m not going to go blabbing to the insurance company. If we’re talking about a serious breach, that’s a different case, but we’re here to advocate for our clients. What’s your advice for finding a broker? Fortune 500 companies interview brokers until they find the right one. I tell my middle-market clients to do the same thing. Interview some brokers and choose the one who understands your business and can bring you the best deal. Sometimes a business will ask if we want to “bid” on their insurance, but having two or three brokers competing and splitting the marketplace isn’t in a business’ best interest. Pick the broker, and expect them to do the job for you. Fire them if they don’t. What is something about the insurance industry that might surprise those on the outside? Insurance is a cornerstone of the economy, along with law and finance. Without our industry and the services we provide, commerce couldn’t happen. Most people think of us as car insurance or life insurance peddlers – it’s a stigma we fight daily. What are your predictions for the future of the industry? I think we’ll see more M&A activity and consolidation as agency owners “age out” of the business. There will also be an increased need for younger salespeople. The generation gap is huge, and as senior vets retire, the knowledge gap will grow. But that also leaves room for new talent to rise quickly. What is a lesson from your career that you think holds true in every field? Treat your client as if you were an owner in their business, and do what’s best for them. If you’re not taking care of the other person, and you’re only taking care of yourself, sooner or later they’ll realize that’s not what they want.
